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Old 12-21-2009, 05:28 AM   #21
Vidugavia
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There are some nice elaborations in the MERP module "Grey mountains". If I remember correctly many of their dragons were wounded or young at the war of wrath. The relative absence of dragons during the second age and first half of the third was due to the need for maturation and healing. I like the idea that dragons heal very slow and are in need of much rest between battles.

Here is the module:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11306945/The-Grey-Mountains
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Old 12-21-2009, 11:56 AM   #22
Alcuin
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In Tolkien: A Biography, chapter “Enter Mr. Baggins”, Humphrey Carter wrote,
Quote:
Originally the dragon was called ‘Pryftan’, the name ‘Gandalf’ was given to the chief dwarf, and the wizard was called ‘Bladorthin’. The dragon’s name was soon changed to ‘Smaug’, from the Germanic verb smugan meaning ‘to squeeze through a hole’; Tolkien called this ‘a low philological jest’.

-|-

[this was appended later]

From the Welsh, pryf “worm” + tân “fire”, Pryftan = “Fire-worm”, an apt description of Smaug and a literal translation of Tolkien’s Sindarin term for fire-breathing dragons, urulóki, “fire-serpent/drake/worm”.

For the Welsh, I used the Welsh-English / English-Welsh On-line Dictionary from the Welsh Department at University of Wales, Lampeter. This resource may be useful to others on Entmoot.
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Old 12-21-2009, 05:26 PM   #23
Lefty Scaevola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcuin View Post
I wonder if the Witch-king availed himself of any of them, if he and Sauron kept them aside for other purposes, or if they had any influence over them at all?
The third age dragons seemed to be somewhat indepedent minded, and I suspect that it would take the full will of Sauron, wielding the ring, after he had dropped his disguise as "The Necromancer" at Dol Guldor, to actually commanded them.
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Old 01-25-2010, 10:22 AM   #24
Wilhelm
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Gandalf

Smaug’s age:

We may have some info on how quickly Dragons mature. It took Glaurung 200 years to go from a "soft" dragon that first emerged from the gates of Angband during the siege (first age 260) to the "hard" dragon that emerged during the battle of sudden flame (F.A. 455).

Was that natural development? Was it aided by Morgoth? What implications does it have for Smaug or other dragons and is it helpful in determining his age? I haven’t the foggiest but, it is some data that may help someone.

There is a passage in the Hobbit that is interesting and may have implications to Smaug’s age.

"I kill where I wish and none dare resist. I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. Then I was but young and tender. Now I am old and strong, strong, strong."

For current warriors to be watered down as much as Smaug implies would, in turn, imply that he is old. Very old. I would guess we are going back to the 2nd age at least. This is open to interpretation.

I doubt Smaug was mature (perhaps he wasn’t even hatched) in the first age. If he was mature, he probably would have been sent out with Ancalagon the Black to fight the Host of the Valar during the War of Wrath. It seems unlikely he would have escaped that battle.

I would guess that Smaug is born in the 2nd age, possibly late in the first age (like that narrows it down much).


Dragon Creation:

Glaurung is first. He was created by Morgoth. Glaurung was a powerful and very magical beast, he likely created a bunch of offspring (winged, footed, slithering, fire, cold) through his magic and other mysterious ways. These offspring would have the ability to reproduce (in my mind anyway).


Smaug’s Lineage:

There are only 4 named Dragons that I am aware of (Glaurung, Ancalagon, Scatha and Smaug), there is not a lot of info to trace lineage.

Ancalagon the black appears to be the first winged fire-drake (he was the leader and most powerful when they first appeared during the war of wrath). I tend to think that Smaug is a descendant of Ancalagon. And Ancalagon a descendent of Glaurung (as Glaurung is the Father of Dragons).
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Old 01-25-2010, 10:46 AM   #25
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In just re-reading 'The Hobbit' while reading it to my two younger boys, I noticed the following in chapter 1 - just after Gandalf pulls out the map:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hobbit, chapter 1
"I don't see that this will help us much," said Thorin disappointedly after a glance. "I remember the Mountains well enough and the lands about it. And I know where Mirkwood is, and the Withered Heath where the great dragons bred."
If Thorin means that literally, and if he is correct, it sounds as though dragons did reproduce, and did not all need to be created by magic. With all the centuries the Dwarves lived in the Withered Heath, and the threat that dragons became to them - I would suspect they would have learned enough by observation to make an accurate guess about this. For instance, they may have observed young dragons suddenly coming along, and slowly growing to maturity.
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Old 07-20-2010, 07:01 AM   #26
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A fun thread.

I agree with Earendil and Lefty - the dragons always seem more independent-minded than most evil creatures. I seem to recall that when used in the War of the Jewels they sometimes had to be driven to battle by balrogs wielding whips. This, and Smaug's character in general, seem to imply an independent mindset. Dragons are greedy and enjoy destruction, which means they were useful to their creator and his successor, but they are also intelligent and look after Number One.

I picture a small-ish population of them breeding in the north, the odd one tempted south by rumours of plunder to be had, but not inclined to come to heel should Sauron whistle for them.
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