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Old 07-29-2006, 09:41 AM   #1
mithrand1r
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Chapter 4 -- The Keeper of the Keys

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
Chapter 4
The Keeper of the Keys

This chapter starts as the conclusion of a cliff hanger from Chapter 3 (A banging at the door). Uncle Vernon was sure he picked a good place for him and his family to hide out from magical letters and other unusual happenings. The beginning of chapter 4 lets us know that Uncle Vernon was wrong in a big way.

I find "The Keeper of the Keys" to be a interesting chapter that really begins to open Harry's eyes to who and what he is, some of his history and some information about his parents.

The Chapter ends with Harry agreeing to go with Hagrid to Hogwarts to learn to be a wizard.

Some important points of this chapter (IMHO):
  • The first meeting of Hagrid by Harry. (That Harry remembers.)
  • The Dursleys appear terrified of Hagrid, yet Mr. Dursley seems determined to keep Hagrid away from his family and Harry. He appears willing to use his gun to make is point.
  • Hagrid is the keeper of the keys and the grounds at Hogwarts.
  • Hagrid easily bent the gun with his bare hands.
  • Hagrid is shocked that Harry is ignorant of his history and what happened to his parents.
  • Harry learns that his parents were wizards and that he is one of the most famous wizards in the world for surviving against Voldemort. (it seems that people are afraid to say Voldemort's name or at least Hagrid is )
  • We learn the term muggle (non magician)
  • There is a Dark side and a non Dark side (of the force ) of magic.
  • Voldemort killed Harry’s parents.
  • Hagrid is very loyal to Albus Dumbledore. He thinks the world of him and he threatened to do harm to Uncle Vernon for insulting AD in his presence.
  • Hagrid is not permitted to perform magic. (why?)
  • Hagrid was expelled from Hogwarts, yet AD let him stay at the school.

Some questions that come to mind:
  • Hagrid is shocked that Harry is ignorant of his history and what happened to his parents.
Why do the Dursley's work so hard to keep Harry unaware of his history and the truth behind his parents' death?
  • (it seems that people are afraid to say his name or at least Hagrid is )
Why are people (Hagrid) afraid to say Voldemort's name aloud?
  • Voldemort killed Harry’s parents.
Why did Voldemort kill Harry's parents?
  • Hagrid is not permitted to perform magic.
Why?
  • Hagrid easily bent the gun with his bare hands.
Who or what is Hagrid?
  • Hagrid was expelled from Hogwarts, yet AD let him stay at the school.
Why was Hagrid permitted to stay at Hogwarts? This is probably part of the reason for Hagrid's loyalty to Albus Dumbledore.

Some final questions that I just thought of are:
What happens to the Dursleys?
Will Dudley lose his tail?
Will the Dursleys care that Harry is leaving them? (When they had Harry, they treated him worse than Cinderella.)
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Old 07-29-2006, 10:12 AM   #2
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*wow* different.

now for some answers.

1) because that would make harry feel special, and more important then the Dursley's. Also, it would remind Patunia of what she lost (lily) when l went to Hogwarts, and so p doesn't want to bring back those painful memories.

2) maybe because Hagrid knows of the connection between Tom Riddle and Voldemort (via dd?), and so hates him because he got Hagrid expeld, and so couldn't continue to be a normal wizard. also because of the giant killings?

3) From the mugglenet/leaky cauldron interview:

"ES: This is one of my burning questions since the third book - why did Voldemort offer Lily so many chances to live? Would he actually have let her live?

JKR: Mmhm.

ES: Why?

JKR: [silence] Can't tell you. But he did offer, you're absolutely right. Don't you want to ask me why James's death didn't protect Lily and Harry? There’s your answer, you've just answered your own question, because she could have lived and chose to die. James was going to be killed anyway. Do you see what I mean? I’m not saying James wasn't ready to; he died trying to protect his family but he was going to be murdered anyway. He had no - he wasn't given a choice, so he rushed into it in a kind of animal way, I think there are distinctions in courage. James was immensely brave. But the caliber of Lily's bravery was, I think in this instance, higher because she could have saved herself. Now any mother, any normal mother would have done what Lily did. So in that sense her courage too was of an animal quality but she was given time to choose. James wasn't. It's like an intruder entering your house, isn't it? You would instinctively rush them. But if in cold blood you were told, "Get out of the way," you know, what would you do? I mean, I don't think any mother would stand aside from their child. But does that answer it? She did very consciously lay down her life. She had a clear choice -

ES: And James didn't.

JKR: Did he clearly die to try and protect Harry specifically given a clear choice? No. It's a subtle distinction and there's slightly more to it than that but that's most of the answer.

MA: Did she know anything about the possible effect of standing in front of Harry?

JKR: No - because as I've tried to make clear in the series, it never happened before. No one ever survived before. And no one, therefore, knew that could happen.

MA: So no one - Voldemort or anyone using Avada Kedavra - ever gave someone a choice and then they took that option [to die] -

JKR: They may have been given a choice, but not in that particular way."

4) because he's not a fully qualified wizard.

5) Hagrid is a giant, and is "the keeper of the keys"

6) because dd knew he was innosent with the basilisk, and probally wanted to informally complete his training.

7) maybe they were stuck on the rock, until harry and hagrid come back from their shopping trip, to take them back to Privit Drive.

8) He'll have it privately removed in London.

9) simple answer: NO!
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Old 07-29-2006, 11:10 AM   #3
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(it seems that people are afraid to say his name or at least Hagrid is )
Why are people (Hagrid) afraid to say Voldemort's name aloud?
well, in many cultures and beliefs, saying the name aloud of a great power of evil will bring bad luck or summon said power.

also, the classic speaking of a bad event and immediately "knocking on wood"...it's a play off old superstition.
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Old 07-29-2006, 11:40 AM   #4
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yeh, touching wood is supposed to bring good luck to the person who touches it.
Ohh, and Hagrid's very rude, isn't he. He knocks down their door, forces Dudley to move, and before he even introduces himself, he tells harry that he looks like his dad etc, etc. That's just totally rude, don't you think.
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Old 07-29-2006, 02:27 PM   #5
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and u forgot the tail; poor dursley; really that i thought was the worst bit; otherwise, i mean, he said sorry for knocking down the door, and these things are hard for half-giants; he was just knocking, and it fell off. and evry1 who meets Harry tells him the thing abt his father... and its as good a introduction as any; 'I knew ur father, kid.'

and when someone just pointed a gun at you, after making u run around for days, ur probably not too keen on manners unless ur Dumbledore; imagine if it had been Sirius who'd come, not Hagrid...
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Old 07-29-2006, 02:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenoli
imagine if it had been Sirius who'd come, not Hagrid...
ah...mental fun!
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Old 07-29-2006, 04:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenoli
and u forgot the tail; poor dursley; really that i thought was the worst bit; otherwise, i mean, he said sorry for knocking down the door, and these things are hard for half-giants; he was just knocking, and it fell off. and evry1 who meets Harry tells him the thing abt his father... and its as good a introduction as any; 'I knew ur father, kid.'

and when someone just pointed a gun at you, after making u run around for days, ur probably not too keen on manners unless ur Dumbledore; imagine if it had been Sirius who'd come, not Hagrid...
you do realize that we're talking about the book, and not the film, because having the book right in front of me, he doesn't say sorry at all, unlike in the movie version. And how would you feel if a complete stranger to you came up to you one day, and said that you looked exactlly like your mum/dad, before they explained themself, or how they know you look like your mum/dad. i personally would back off.
And i don't think anyone would send a half-giant half way round the country, just to give one boy a letter, even if it is harry potter. no, they sent the by magical means, and when the Dursley's were trapped, that's when they sent Hagrid, so they couldn't escape.
If i was meeting anyone from the magical world for the first time, i'd rarther meet sirius, because i think he would explain himself, and how he knew harry's parents, before complementing them and him.
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Old 07-30-2006, 03:20 AM   #8
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i never thot he was that rude, myself... anyway, the magical means you're talking abt, were all done by Hagrid, they said he was allowed magic on this one mission, wich is partly y he wanted to do it... and its not anyone, its dumbledore who did it;

besides, leaving the door bit apart, he had been trying to get harry the letter for ever so long, and the dursleys tried to best to stop him; I'm sure that induced no kind feelings for him. Besides I have a feeling a meek knock at the door and may I come in, Mr. and Mrs. Dursley would not work. And, as for the whole not introducing himself, it seems a prevalent practice in wizard society... remember Dedalus Diggle, and the other wizards who shook his hands and ran off, etc.

Anyway, Harry didnt seem to mind... he was, after all, quite desperate to meet someone who actually knew him, and after all, the letters must have piqued him; Hagrid may have been a stranger, but Harry must have guessed he was the one who had sent him the letter...
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Old 07-30-2006, 04:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567
*wow* different.
Thanks. I tried to get the general feel of the chapter in a brief style. (I did not want to rewrite the entire chapter if I could avoid it. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567
3) From the mugglenet/leaky cauldron interview:

"ES: This is one of my burning questions since the third book - why did Voldemort offer Lily so many chances to live? Would he actually have let her live?

. . .
Thanks for the information, though if someone only read the book they would not know this (at least not until reading further into the series.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567
4) because he's not a fully qualified wizard.
Good answer, although again the reader would not know this at the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567
5) Hagrid is a giant, and is "the keeper of the keys"
Partially true. I think he is a half-giant. The reader would not know this at the time until later in the series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567
6) because dd knew he was innosent with the basilisk, and probally wanted to informally complete his training.
Probably true. Although the reader would not know this until later in the series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567
7) maybe they were stuck on the rock, until harry and hagrid come back from their shopping trip, to take them back to Privit Drive.
That would be funny. I was thinking a bit more long term and I never considered them being stuck at the lighthouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567
8) He'll have it privately removed in London.
Plastic surgery for the common folk. IIRC, Hagrid mentions that the tail will disappear after a few hours. For the reader, they will not know that until they read it later in the book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567
9) simple answer: NO!
I am inclined to agree. I do think it is odd how the Dursleys are able to get away with how they treat Harry.

Unfortunately I have heard of true stories of children being malnourished by their legal guardians for years without the authorities discovering about the mistreatment of the children until years of time have passed.
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'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir

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Old 07-30-2006, 04:09 PM   #10
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ohhh, i didn't realize that you didn't want us to refer to later in the book.
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Old 07-30-2006, 05:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
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ohhh, i didn't realize that you didn't want us to refer to later in the book.
Perhaps I misunderstood about the assignment. I thought we were going to discuss each chapter as if we were reading the material as a new reader.

While I understood that we could make comments with our knowledge from later in the book/series, I thought I would bring up points that the reader may not currently be aware of at the current point in the story.

I was very much in the dark about much of HP until I completed reading the books. Even after reading all six books, there are some areas that are unclear to me. (either I forgot the reference from previous books or I skipped over the relavent material.)

Either way this is no big deal. The important point is to hear peoples thoughts in the various chapters.
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'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir

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Old 07-30-2006, 06:04 PM   #12
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i thought we could bring in relevent bits from the later books, and talk about them in these early chapters, so that it would increase our enjoyment with them as a whole.
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Old 07-30-2006, 09:07 PM   #13
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Jumping in: I just wanted to bring up the idea of Hagrid's title being "the keeper of the keys." I think this has more meaning than just that he has keys to the doors. What do you think?
It might have to do with the fact that a key is how you enter a place, and for Harry, Hagrid is how he is getting there/ being introduced to the school. It is through Hagrid that Harry is entering the school (and the wizarding world). Also, notice that it is he that brings the first years over from the train, so they enter Hogwarts (for the first time) through him in a way.

Another thing: (this is from later on, though) Fluffy is the first impediment to the stone, the way to get through the first door is to get past Fluffy -- Hagrid holds the "key" that unlocks it, that is, the answer to how to get past.

I have a feeling that his being the keeper of the keys will will have a bearing on something in book 7, whether literally or again symbolically.
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Old 07-30-2006, 11:35 PM   #14
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I have a feeling that his being the keeper of the keys will will have a bearing on something in book 7, whether literally or again symbolically.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by azalea
It might have to do with the fact that a key is how you enter a place, and for Harry, Hagrid is how he is getting there/ being introduced to the school. It is through Hagrid that Harry is entering the school (and the wizarding world). Also, notice that it is he that brings the first years over from the train, so they enter Hogwarts (for the first time) through him in a way.

Another thing: (this is from later on, though) Fluffy is the first impediment to the stone, the way to get through the first door is to get past Fluffy -- Hagrid holds the "key" that unlocks it, that is, the answer to how to get past.

I have a feeling that his being the keeper of the keys will will have a bearing on something in book 7, whether literally or again symbolically.
i never thought of it that way before.
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Old 07-31-2006, 10:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azalea
Jumping in: I just wanted to bring up the idea of Hagrid's title being "the keeper of the keys." I think this has more meaning than just that he has keys to the doors. What do you think?
It might have to do with the fact that a key is how you enter a place, and for Harry, Hagrid is how he is getting there/ being introduced to the school. It is through Hagrid that Harry is entering the school (and the wizarding world). Also, notice that it is he that brings the first years over from the train, so they enter Hogwarts (for the first time) through him in a way.

Another thing: (this is from later on, though) Fluffy is the first impediment to the stone, the way to get through the first door is to get past Fluffy -- Hagrid holds the "key" that unlocks it, that is, the answer to how to get past.

I have a feeling that his being the keeper of the keys will will have a bearing on something in book 7, whether literally or again symbolically.
Very good insight regarding Hagrid. I never gave much thought about how Hagrid's title relates to him (besides his position at the school). Nice tie in to Fluffy. (and indicating this as possible foreshadowing of what occurs later in the book/series)

Regarding book 7. Hagrid may be the key for the world (perhaps more specifically Harry et. al.) surviving voldemort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenoli
i never thot he was that rude, myself... anyway, the magical means you're talking abt, were all done by Hagrid, they said he was allowed magic on this one mission, wich is partly y he wanted to do it... and its not anyone, its dumbledore who did it;
I never considered Hagrid rude. He just has a way of being very direct with the people around him. He is not two-faced. Hagrid will let you know what he thinks of you and not be concerned with the potential consequences.

Hagrid was permitted to use magic in reaching Harry and delivering his message. IIRC, Hagrid was not permitted to use magic once he found Harry and delivered his message. (I think there is a brief mention of this when Hagrid causes the boat to travel quicker than normal.)
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'Many are my names in many countries,' he said. 'Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Drarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.' Faramir

What nobler employment, or more valuable to the state, than that of the man who instructs the rising generation? Cicero (106BC-43BC)
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Old 07-31-2006, 12:59 PM   #17
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i heard somewhere that she's following an alchamy prossess of black, white and red. Sirius is gone, as is dd, then the future doesn't look too brigth for hagrid...
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Old 07-31-2006, 06:53 PM   #18
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ah, i too read that. i believe it was in an article posted by jammi...at least, that's where i found it.
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Of the world for ever, it seems.
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Old 08-01-2006, 04:22 AM   #19
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Found it. This is the article in question.
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Old 08-08-2006, 07:20 AM   #20
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Anyone?
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This forum is lonely. It's new and confused, and doesn't have many friends yet. Help today by joining for free, posting, and posting this message and link in your sig. So please, join and help make it feel welcomed and loved.
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