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Old 03-03-2004, 12:55 AM   #1
azalea
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The Lord of the Rings discussion project

Inspired by the Silmarillion discussion project, I’ve decided to do something similar here for The Lord of the Rings. This will be a segment-by-segment analysis of the book, with introductions by different members. Some lengthy chapters are stand alone, but most are two chapters together. There will be a new segment every two weeks. If things slow down in the discussion, I might see if the next person can post their intro early to keep things moving. My vision was that we’d all read the book at the same time together, like we were trying to do in the book club forum, but since we’ll be taking about 84 weeks for the discussion, I know at least I won’t be able to wait that long to finish it again! I’m going to try, but it’s hard to keep momentum going when you’ve got to wait to get to the next part, esp at the suspenseful parts.

A few guidelines to get us started: First of all, I feel it necessary to remind everyone that this is the BOOK forum, and that aside from the stray comment here and there about how the movies showed a scene or character, we ask that you PLEASE refrain from mentioning the movies HERE, but feel free to go to that forum to discuss them.

Secondly, I wanted to give a format for the intros. Each segment may be longer than the Silmarillion chapters were, but remember that LotR is less dense in terms of content. For instance, in the space it takes to describe one battle in LotR, The Silmarillion describes an entire “mini-tale.” That’s why I made it so that we’ll usually be doing two at once, it also being in the interest of keeping the momentum going. So don’t be frightened of the amount of material you have to introduce.
I feel that summation of the chapter is unnecessary for the above reason. Don’t bother describing everything that happens in the chapter, as most of us practically know it by heart. Rather, include the following four points:
1.Tell what is/ are the important main events of the chapter(s), what characters are introduced and what are the major plot points.
2.Tell what you liked about this/ these chapter(s) – favorite part, scenes that were particularly funny, scary, descriptive, what stands out to you in the chapter.
3.Tell what, if anything, you disliked or think could have been different, criticisms of Tolkien’s writing, as well as what might have gone differently in the story (there are always some good “what ifs” to spark discussion).
4.Finally, list some questions or comments for discussion, content-based or otherwise.
I think this can be done in one or two posts. I don’t want us to focus our energy too much on writing the intros, but instead make the focus the chapter(s) and our discourse about it, hopefully having all just read it.

Finally, I’d like to say a word about “canon,” for the purposes of our discussion. This may be controversial, but I think it is in the best interest of the project to establish this guideline. Certainly you may mention ties to the Silmarillion in discussing the chapters. Also, interesting factoids about the life of Tolkien are welcome (pertinent quotes from Letters, etc.), to add to the discussion of this or that part or aspect of the story. But I’d like to make this a discussion of The Lord of the Rings as a discreet, stand-alone work (although it arguably is not), as if we are reading it when it first came out. I think pulling in info from the greater mythology FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS PROJECT will muddy the waters too much (obviously I’m not talking about any other threads in this forum). Let’s try just for these threads to say that the material contained in the text is canonical, whether or not HoME or other texts published later appear to refute it. I think this will serve to do a few things: it will “level the playing field” (not everyone has read the HoME, and some haven’t even read The Silm), it will allow for wider participation for that reason, and part of the goal of this project is to revitalize this forum and to draw in new people, or people who heretofore have been shy about participating in the discussions. Let’s let everyone feel confident about sharing their views, Tolkien “scholar” and first time reader alike, without feeling like they’re going to be corrected for a “wrong” statement. Of course, feel free to argue and bicker about stuff like we always do (J), but don’t make it an argument based on ME info that can’t be gotten from the LotR text itself. I hope this decision doesn’t dampen anyone’s enthusiasm for participating in the project, but please know that I’m doing this so that as many people as possible will be able to fully be a part of this, and feel confident in doing so. Plus, I want this to be more a discussion of the work itself, and not of the mythology. Sometimes bringing to much extraneous stuff in detracts from the story.

This should be a lot of fun if the Silmarillion project is any indicator, and I hope a lot of you will sign up for chapters, and that everyone else will come and participate in the discussions – this is the excuse you’ve been waiting for to read it again, this time along with your fellow mooters! J

The next post will be the list of chapters. I divided them up so that as many as possible could be in pairs, but the long ones will stand alone. I’ve only put a due date on the first one, because I’d like to see when we can get the first one posted (I’ll take it if no one else wants it, but I’ve already picked my two – see below). After that gets posted, I’ll add due dates for the next ones, but just know that if you have the next one, it’s due two weeks after the one before it was posted. I’ve included the Foreword and Prologue, as well as the Appendices (except for the Family Trees), as I feel they have much material for discussion, and I know we all include them when we read it anyway. Please don’t post here until I’ve gotten that second post up, so these can be together. You can go ahead and request what chapters you want to intro once I’ve posted it, but let’s stick to two per person right now, to give everyone a chance to sign up for one that wants to. It will be first ask, first pick. IMPORTANT: If you know in advance that you will be unable to do your chapters, PLEASE post that here or PM me, so that we can reassign it. If you decide to leave/ take a break from Entmoot, please do the courtesy of letting us know you won’t be here to put up your chapter. That has been the only problem encountered in the Silmarillion project – people not showing up on their due date.
Another note: Obviously a lot of what we discuss will have been discussed in other threads. That's okay. This is a separate project, and the other threads are for going into greater depth for a particular aspect of the books. Repitition is okay here.

And now, without further ado…
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Old 03-03-2004, 12:59 AM   #2
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1. Foreword and Prologue – due March 12th (at the latest) -- assigned to Azalea
2. Book I, ch. 1: A Long Expected Party -- assigned to Cassiopeia --DUE MARCH 26
3. Book I, ch. 2: The Shadow of the Past – assigned to Jerseydevil --DUE APRIL 9 (posted on April 17)
4. Book I, ch. 3&4: Three is Company and A Shortcut to Mushrooms -- assigned to Tuor of Gondolin --DUE APRIL 30
5. Book I, ch. 5&6: A Conspiracy Unmasked and The Old Forest – assigned to Jerseydevil -- DUE MAY 20 (posted on June 23)
6. Book I, ch. 7&8: In the House of Tom Bombadil and Fog on the Barrow Downs -- assigned to Rian --DUE JULY 8
7. Book I, ch. 9&10: At the Sign of the Prancing Pony and Strider -- assigned to Fat Middle -- DUE JULY 29 (posted on Aug. 8)
8. Book I, ch. 11&12: A Knife in the Dark and Flight to the Ford -- assigned to Linaewen --DUE AUG.20
9. Book II, ch. 1: Many Meetings -- assigned to brownjenkins --DUE SEPT. 2
10. Book II, ch. 2: The Council of Elrond -- assigned to Finrod Felagund --DUE SEPT 16 (posted Oct.2)
11. Book II, ch. 3: The Ring Goes South -- assigned to Maegondowen --DUE OCT. 16 (posted on Oct. 17 by Forkbeard)
12. Book II, ch. 4: A Journey in the Dark -- assigned to Earniel --DUE OCT. 30 (posted Nov. 2, 2004)
13. Book II, ch. 5&6: The Bridge of Khazad-dum and Lothlorien -- assigned to Brownjenkins --DUE NOV. 16 (partial post Dec. 5, 2004) REMAINDER DUE DEC. 21
14. Book II ch. 7&8: The Mirror of Galadriel and Farewell to Lorien -- assigned to Artanis --DUE JAN. 4 (posted Jan. 4, 2005)
15. Book II, ch. 9&10: The Great River and The Breaking of the Fellowship -- assigned to Luinilwen reassigned to Beard of Pants DUE JAN. 18 (posted Jan. 18, 2005)
16. Book III, ch. 1&2: The Departure of Boromir and The Riders of Rohan -- assigned to Forkbeard DUE FEB. 1 (posted Feb. 5, 2005)
17. Book III, ch. 3: The Uruk-hai -- assigned to Last Child of Ungoliant DUE FEB. 19 (posted Feb. 16, 2005)
18. Book III, ch. 4: Treebeard -- assigned to Bombadillo DUE MARCH 5 (posted March 4, 2005)
19. Book III, ch. 5: The White Rider -- assigned to mithrand1r DUE MARCH 19
20. Book III, ch. 6&7: The King of the Golden Hall and Helm’s Deep -- assigned to Earniel DUE APRIL 2 (posted Apr. 6, 2005)
21. Book III, ch. 8&9: The Road to Isengard and Flotsam and Jetsam -- assigned to Bombadillo (Reassigned to Forkbeard) DUE MAY 15 (posted May 14 & 16, 2005)
22. Book III, ch. 10&11: The Voice of Saruman and The Palantir -- assigned to Linaewen and Radagast the Brown DUE MAY 29 (posted June 8.. ish, 2005)
23. Book IV, ch. 1&2: The Taming of Smeagol and The Passage of the Marshes assigned to Telcontar Dunedain DUE JUNE 22 (posted June 25, 2005)
24. Book IV, ch. 3&4: The Black Gate is Closed and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit -- assigned to BeardofPants DUE JULY 9 (posted July 9, 2005 - NZ time )
25. Book IV, ch. 5&6: The Window on the West and The Forbidden Pool -- assigned to Artanis ( Reassigned to The Gaffer ) DUE JULY 23 (posted July 23, 2005)
26. Book IV, ch. 7&8: The Journey to the Crossroads and The Stairs of Cirith Ungol - assigned to Elanor the Fair DUE AUGUST 6 (posted August 6, 2005)
27. Book IV, ch. 9&10: Shelob’s Lair and The Choices of Master Samwise – assigned to Azalea DUE SEPTEMBER 1
28. Book V, ch. 1: Minas Tirith - assigned to Haradrim (Reassigned to Artanis) DUE SEPTEMBER 22 (tent) (posted September 25, 2005)
29. Book V, ch. 2&3: The Passing of the Grey Company and The Muster of Rohan -- assigned to Dunedain (Reassigned to Butterbeer) DUE OCTOBER 9 (posted October 12 and October 25, 2005)
30. Book V, ch. 4: The Siege of Gondor -- assigned to Beren3000 DUE OCTOBER 23 (posted November 10, 2005)
31. Book V, ch. 5&6: The Ride of the Rohirrim and The Battle of Pelennor Fields -- assigned to Falagar (Reassigned to Valandil) DUE DECEMBER 1 (posted January 12, 2006)
32. Book V, ch. 7&8: The Pyre of Denethor and The Houses of Healing -- assigned to Brownjenkins (Reassigned to Landroval) DUE MARCH 5 (posted March 3, 2006)
33. Book V, ch. 9&10: The Last Debate and The Black Gate Opens -- assigned to Crickhollow DUE MARCH 26 (posted April 1, 2006)
34. Book VI, ch. 1: The Tower of Cirith Ungol -- assigned to Cassiopeia (Reassigned to Serenoli) DUE APRIL 22 (posted April 21, 2006)
35. Book VI, ch 2&3: The Land of Shadow and Mount Doom -- assigned to Telcontar Dunedain DUE MAY 12 (posted May 14, 2006)
36. Book VI, ch. 4&5: The Field of Cormallen and The Steward and the King -- assigned to Dunedain (Reassigned to Landroval ) DUE JUNE 5 (posted June 5, 2006)
37. Book VI, ch. 6&7: Many Partings and Homeward Bound -- assigned to Finrod Felagund DUE JUNE 26 (posted June 29, 2006)
38. Book VI, ch. 8&9: The Scouring of the Shire and The Grey Havens -- assigned to Nurvingiel DUE AUGUST 17 (postponed) (posted August 26, 2006)
39. Appendix A.1: The Numenorian Kings -- assigned to Valandil DUE SEPTEMBER 16 (posted September 16, 2006)
40. Appendix A2&3: The House of Eorl and Durin’s Folk -- assigned to Last Child of Ungoliant (Reassigned to Forkbeard) DUE OCTOBER 7 (posted October 10)
41. Appendices B&D: The Tale of Years and Calendars -- assigned to Valandil DUE OCTOBER 31 (posted November 2)
42. Appendices E&F: Writing and Spelling and The Languages and Peoples of the Third Age/ On Translation (slated to be posted about 84 weeks after the first section - more like about 140 weeks - but that's OK ) -- assigned to Forkbeard DUE NOVEMBER 27 (posted December 4, 2006)

~ finis ~

Last edited by Valandil : 12-16-2006 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 03-03-2004, 01:02 AM   #3
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Wow! This is so exciting Azalea, what a great project! I would absolutely love to participate. For now, I will only sign up for one section, "The Scouring of the Shire" is my favourite chapter:

38. Book VI, ch. 8&9: The Scouring of the Shire and The Grey Havens

Thanks for organizing such a cool project.

EDIT: In addition to that, I would definitely have time to do one this summer, so I'll take an earlier one that's due in the summer, unless they all get snapped up. (No fair having more than one if there's people who don't have a chapter yet.)
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Old 03-03-2004, 01:09 AM   #4
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Done. I went ahead and signed up for two, but if too many people want to do intros and there aren't enough chapters, I'll be willing to give up my second one (I will not give up Shelob's Lair and The Choices of Master Samwise, though! Sorry! )

Don't forget, everyone: even if you aren't introing a chapter, you can be as active in the discussion as you want, and anyone can add questions or comments for discussion in the thread.

Edit: Hey, guys, just post what section(s) you want here, and I'll post them in the list when I come back on. Just be sure to read the posts above yours to make sure no one has already asked for that section.
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Old 03-03-2004, 04:37 AM   #5
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What a great idea azalea.
The only bad thing is the difficulty of choosing a chapter, but I'll go for these please:
25. Book IV, ch. 5&6: The Window on the West and The Forbidden Pool
14. Book II ch. 7&8: The Mirror of Galadriel and Farewell to Lorien

I'll take any leftovers too.
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Old 03-03-2004, 06:06 AM   #6
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I'd take "7. Book I, ch. 9&10: At the Sign of the Prancing Pony and Strider"
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Old 03-03-2004, 08:31 AM   #7
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Azalea,

Great idea! I'm the oddball around here, so I'll take:

39. Appendix A.1: The Numenorian Kings

41. Appendices B&D: The Tale of Years and Calendars

I can also take some book (story) chapters if you like, but there are a lot of Tolkien fans around, so I don't want to start laying claim for too much, too quickly. I'll PM you later to tell you which ones I'm willing to take, so that others won't feel like their favorite chapter is already 'staked out'.

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Old 03-03-2004, 09:02 AM   #8
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How long does it take to discuss one chapter/part? I'd really like to take on

8. Book I, ch. 11&12: A Knife in the Dark and Flight to the Ford

but I think I might be too busy in case it's my turn soon.

If someone (namely a Glorfindel fan ) also wishes to do these chapters, then I don't mind sharing.

Have misplaced my FotR. Will find it...
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Old 03-03-2004, 09:33 AM   #9
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Ok, Lin and I decided to do Chapter 10&11: The Voice of Saruman and The Palantir together, although it seems like hard chapters, if it's possible.

Everything, of course, would be run by Lin, becuase she insisted.
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Old 03-03-2004, 09:38 AM   #10
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I cannot deny either.

Is it ok to share them? We talk to each other enough; I'm sure we'd be able to collaborate them ok.
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Old 03-03-2004, 11:07 AM   #11
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I'd like to contribute as well. Not exactly famed for making long posts but I'll give it a try, if it's alright with you. Preferably a chapter[/s] in RotK; right now I'll just say The Ride of the Rohirrim and The Battle of Pelennor Fields (may change).
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Old 03-03-2004, 11:13 AM   #12
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Valandil -- I don't think you're an oddball at all! The Appendices rule! I know a lot of people are really "into" the different things contained in them, like all those folks in the ME forum who discuss the languages. You are the lucky one who gets the story of Aragorn and Arwen's romance!

Lin and Rad -- I think it's fine to share a section. You could each take one of the chapters, or you could just collaborate in PMs and post as one. So are you saying you only want Section 22, Saruman and The Palantir, and not section 8, or do you want both?

The reason for combining chs. is that some are very short, and also if we're taking two weeks per section, I didn't want to have to wait that long for each chapter. It would be too slow. It is two weeks per section, so #8 won't be due for about 3 months, and #22 won't be due for almost a year.
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Old 03-03-2004, 11:37 AM   #13
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I'd like the Council of Elrond as well as The Voice of Saruman and the Palantir

And If no one else wants it I'll take the appendix on the house of Eorl and Durins folk too.
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Old 03-03-2004, 12:10 PM   #14
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IEP! You people are fast. Seems like some of the good chapters are already taken.

Difficult choice....


*shuffles in, attaches herself to chapter and steps on all the greedy reaching fingers*

I'd like 20. Book III, ch. 6&7: The King of the Golden Hall and Helm’s Deep, please.

Can I be greedy and claim 12. Book II, ch. 4: A Journey in the Dark too?
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Old 03-03-2004, 12:16 PM   #15
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I'd like to take

19. Book III, ch. 5: The White Rider

Mainly because tricksey Nurvingiel already got "The Scouring of the Shire!"
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Old 03-03-2004, 12:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eärniel
I'd like 20. Book III, ch. 6&7: The King of the Golden Hall and Helm’s Deep, please.

Can I be greedy and claim 12. Book II, ch. 4: A Journey in the Dark too?


I thought sure you'd take: #18, Treebeard!!!

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Old 03-03-2004, 12:27 PM   #17
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I thought sure you'd take: #18, Treebeard!!!
*whines* that's another good one! I was thinking about it, honestly. But I feared that if I took my time to look over LoTR to see which chapter I wanted, I'd come back just in time to see the last chapter go away. So I just picked first two that I remember enjoying reading in particular.

Too much choice, precioussss....
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Old 03-03-2004, 01:26 PM   #18
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I notice not many early chapters are taken, so, if necessary, I could also do #4. Book I, ch. 3&4: Three is Company and A Shortcut to Mushrooms.
But if someone else doesn't have chapters and wants them, that's fine. The offer is just, if necessary, to keep things going.
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Old 03-03-2004, 02:41 PM   #19
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Originally posted by azalea
Lin and Rad -- I think it's fine to share a section. You could each take one of the chapters, or you could just collaborate in PMs and post as one. So are you saying you only want Section 22, Saruman and The Palantir, and not section 8, or do you want both?

The reason for combining chs. is that some are very short, and also if we're taking two weeks per section, I didn't want to have to wait that long for each chapter. It would be too slow. It is two weeks per section, so #8 won't be due for about 3 months, and #22 won't be due for almost a year.
Thanks Azalea!

I think Lin meant she wants them both; but she might've not. But in anyway we'll do the Voice of Saruman and the Palantir - 'cause I insisted about not doing the knife in the dark and the flight to the ford.

FF - we're doing the Voice of Saruman + the Palantir, so hands off it
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Old 03-03-2004, 03:13 PM   #20
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Remember you are welcome to take up to two chapters. If it comes close to your due date and you don't think you'll be able to do it, it can be reassigned. Please just let me know. Also, you can trade sections, or give one of yours to someone that doesn't have one and wants to do one (I anticipate some newbies will come in during the course of the project), but you just need to LET ME KNOW so that we have an accurate listing. Thanks.
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